Black Santa

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Black Santa
Tweet Topic Started: Dec 3 2016, 11:23 PM (2,449 Views)
+ Green	Dec 3 2016, 11:23 PM Post #1
Flashy Thing! Posts: 5,436 Group: Legend Member #1,181 Joined: February 25, 2006 Gender Male Country United States What Browser do you use? Fire fox Favourite Manga Gantz	My cousin posted this on Facebook and I thought I would post it here can start a little discussion. https://www.rawstory.com/2016/12/santa-is-white-boycott-mall-of-america-online-racists-are-having-a-meltdown-over-malls-black-santa/comments/#disqus The controversy here is that a Black Santa is being used in the largest mall in the United States. You don't have to read the article, you can just scroll down a little to read the twitter comments to see how some people have reacted. What are you opinions on not only a Black Santa but a Santa of any race or ethnicity. Does it matter to you? Why?
	Don't you ever worry that you're on the Devil's side without even knowing it? - DCI John Luther Black power ranger; I do not belong... B.o.B - Mr. Mister


Goddess Ultimecia	Dec 3 2016, 11:28 PM Post #2
Posts: 10,145 Group: RP Moderator Member #8,473 Joined: October 26, 2012 Gender Male Country None	I hope that this doesn't rustle any jimmies, but... Santa isn't real folks. It doesn't really matter what colour he is lol.
	NinjaSushi Colouring Credit to NinjaSushi for the colouring


+ Emmeth	Dec 3 2016, 11:43 PM Post #3
I ♥ Yoeri Posts: 20,075 Group: Legend Member #8,985 Joined: February 7, 2013 Country Japan	Goddess Ultimecia Dec 3 2016, 11:28 PM I hope that this doesn't rustle any jimmies, but... Santa isn't real folks. It doesn't really matter what colour he is lol. Well, I agree to some extent, but Santa represents christmas. Logically Santa is white because we all want a white christmas; We want to have snow for christmas. That's the way I see it anyway.
	My Twitch Page


breaker335	Dec 3 2016, 11:44 PM Post #4
Posts: 879 Group: Member Member #13,278 Joined: June 5, 2016 Gender Male Country United States	Goddess Ultimecia Dec 3 2016, 11:28 PM I hope that this doesn't rustle any jimmies, but... Santa isn't real folks. It doesn't really matter what colour he is lol. Well...he was always depicted as a white guy and the guy who he's based off of(Saint Nick) was white, but it really shouldn't matter in the long run. Hell there was a black Santa in the old cartoon Class of 3000 on Cartoon Network.



+ Green	Dec 3 2016, 11:54 PM Post #5
Flashy Thing! Posts: 5,436 Group: Legend Member #1,181 Joined: February 25, 2006 Gender Male Country United States What Browser do you use? Fire fox Favourite Manga Gantz	Goddess Ultimecia Dec 3 2016, 11:28 PM I hope that this doesn't rustle any jimmies, but... Santa isn't real folks. It doesn't really matter what colour he is lol. Imma pretend I didn't just read this...Santa not real ha! . For a made up character there is way too much controversy. Santa could be a robot for all I care (Futurama) and that shouldn't be an issue. Sure you can say the original was white (if that is indeed the truth), it doesn't matter really, different versions can always exist.
	Don't you ever worry that you're on the Devil's side without even knowing it? - DCI John Luther Black power ranger; I do not belong... B.o.B - Mr. Mister


lazerbem	Dec 4 2016, 12:10 AM Post #6
Posts: 10,662 Group: Forum Moderator Member #10,435 Joined: November 1, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Asura's Wrath(it counts) What Browser do you use? Google Chrome	It's the spirit of giving and joy that matters, not the color of it.
	Crazy cat cults in the woods


* Yu Narukami	Dec 4 2016, 12:10 AM Post #7
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	Focusing on the colour of his skin and throwing a tantrum because he's black instead of white is kind of missing the entire point of Santa Claus, no? I don't see why this is an issue for people at all.



+ Steve	Dec 4 2016, 12:42 AM Post #8
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season. Posts: 19,471 Group: Legend Member #5,710 Joined: February 7, 2011 Gender Male Country United Kingdom Favourite Anime Hunter x Hunter(2011) What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Berserk all day erry day	I mean, it makes more sense that he'd be white since he lives in the North Pole thus a cold area... But he also has a magical flying sleigh drawn by reindeer and gets around the whole globe in one night delivering presents to every child. I think we can handle Santa being black. Though I would say that there's no reason to change his ethnicity as an icon it'd be kinda dumb to just say he's black now and make every logo featuring the character be a black dude for instance. Plus that would generally create a huge mess of "Why isn't Santa Asian?" "Wow, where the f*** is the middle eastern Santa!" etc etc And then Santa just becomes a group of guys and probably girls of different ethnicities because people won't shut up that their race/sex/gender isn't included even though it shouldn't matter.
	Definitely not a succubus, fear not


+ Sandy Shore	Dec 4 2016, 12:51 AM Post #9
Posts: 1,860 Group: Elite Member Member #12,337 Joined: May 18, 2015	Green For a made up character there is way too much controversy. There are plenty of made-up characters that people are very protective of, and the personification of Christmas just might be seen as an even more sacred one than a member of the Fantastic Four. It's a heritage and history that some people are especially fond of - fictional or not. You also have to consider that kids that have been shown a white Santa all their life, and believe him to be an actual person, might start questioning why a black man is dressed up as him when they were promised they'd get to meet the real Santa Claus. A fat, old white guy with an actual long, white beard is clearly the best man for the job. People say it's not a big deal, and what does it matter what colour the skin is of a fictional character, but it then follows why someone feels the need to change it in the first place? Because it apparently does matter when questioned, but it's only allowed to matter to some people? I'm not going to mention the racist comments—except to say how inappropriate they obviously are—because the article gives no idea as to how many of the people that are outraged said actually racist things—which they made sure to show us—but minority groups, and white people, are constantly and rightly upset when characters get white-washed, and we all agree that's not acceptable or appropriate, but why is it seemingly increasingly okay to black up white ones? It's not even as if they just went to a mall and saw a black Santa Claus, which I'm almost certain must have been spotted around for decades now in predominately black areas with no one kicking off—and I'm even more certain I've seen them myself once or twice in a comedy or sitcom with predominately/exclusively black actors—but they actually announced it. They're clearly making a point of it, and they're clearly saying the colour of Santa Claus' skin matters in some way, and people disliking it doesn't make them racist or even wrong. Quote: The announcement that Mall of America was welcoming its first black Santa Claus was greeted in many quarters as a good thing but, as might be expected in a country that has become increasingly more comfortable saying any racist thing that comes to mind, many were highly offended. Ha. Edited by Sandy Shore, Dec 4 2016, 02:24 AM.



Tinny	Dec 4 2016, 01:09 AM Post #10
Posts: 6,060 Group: Super Moderator Member #12,355 Joined: May 24, 2015 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime Silver Spoon, Fate/Zero, Legend of Galactic Heroes, Space Patrol Luluco, Psycho-pass, Miss Kobayashi What Browser do you use? Chrome, Edge Favourite Manga Wizard's Soul ~Holy War of Love~	We are talking about a country that just voted in (though not by popular vote) a man backed by former KKK members, who's VP believes in electric shock therapy, and who's own campaign was painting with anti-Muslim and anti-hispanic feelings, in this case I would actually say that race is quite important, and it's important that the race of the Santa in question is not white. Just to tell the kids that other races matter and that minorities are people. Honestly if it weren't for the recent election I wouldn't see the point in announcing it or making a big deal out of it. But right now was about as close to a win for white supremacists as you can get (I realize people have their own reasons for voting Trump and all that, but that is never the less the message it sends). Edited by Tinny, Dec 4 2016, 01:12 AM.
	Above signature created by Graffiti


+ Sandy Shore	Dec 4 2016, 01:24 AM Post #11
Posts: 1,860 Group: Elite Member Member #12,337 Joined: May 18, 2015	Tinny We are talking about a country that just voted in (though not by popular vote) a man backed by former KKK members, who's VP believes in electric shock therapy, and who's own campaign was painting with anti-Muslim and anti-hispanic feelings, in this case I would actually say that race is quite important, and it's important that the race of the Santa in question is not white. Do kids that still believe in Father Christmas know who backed Trump and the what the personal views of his Vice-President are? Isn't Trump anti-illegal immigration, with no specific dislike of Hispanics? It's just that the country's illegal immigrants are overwhelmingly Hispanic. Regardless of the exact motivation for a black Santa, and not a homosexual, Hispanic-Muslim Santa, you're absolutely right that it's politically motivated - which is exactly why I was addressing the "what does it matter to change a character who isn't even real" approach. It does matter, evidently, otherwise they wouldn't intentionally change it. And upsetting one group of people to please another doesn't make the upset group hatefully motivated or wrong, or even more ridiculous than the other. Edited by Sandy Shore, Dec 4 2016, 02:23 AM.



Tinny	Dec 4 2016, 01:40 AM Post #12
Posts: 6,060 Group: Super Moderator Member #12,355 Joined: May 24, 2015 Gender Not Specified Favourite Anime Silver Spoon, Fate/Zero, Legend of Galactic Heroes, Space Patrol Luluco, Psycho-pass, Miss Kobayashi What Browser do you use? Chrome, Edge Favourite Manga Wizard's Soul ~Holy War of Love~	OMG Dec 4 2016, 01:24 AM Tinny We are talking about a country that just voted in (though not by popular vote) a man backed by former KKK members, who's VP believes in electric shock therapy, and who's own campaign was painting with anti-Muslim and anti-hispanic feelings, in this case I would actually say that race is quite important, and it's important that the race of the Santa in question is not white. Do kids that still believe in Father Christmas know who backed Trump and the what the personal views of his Vice-President are? Isn't Trump anti-illegal immigration, with no specific dislike of Hispanics? It's just that the country's illegal immigrants are overwhelmingly Hispanic. Regardless of the exact motivation for a black Santa, and not a homosexual, Hispanic-Muslim Santa, you're absolutely right that it's politically motivated - which is exactly why I was addressing the "what does it matter to change a fictional character who isn't even real" approach. It does matter, and upsetting one group of people to please another doesn't make the upset group hatefully motivated or wrong, or even more ridiculous than the other. No but they do see the fallout "Black Lives don't matter" graffitied onto a wall, an uptick in racism and neonazism, Trumps incendiary rhetoric is something many of them likely heard as well, so again a reminder to the kids, and now that I think about it probably some of the adults as well might be helpful (though who knows if it'll have any effect on an adult considering any of the racist crap going around). And no, we're talking about someone who thinks Judge Gonzalo Curiel cannot adequately rule in a lawsuit against Trump University because he is apparently Mexican (He was born in Chicago) and thus has a bias while thinking the same towards potentially muslim people. And regardless if he wants to specify the Mexicans are "fine" as he puts it his rhetoric, they have sent that overall message of intolerance, this is not something invisible that was made up out of the blue to help "Shillary" as it's said, this is the culture Trump creates. From Tweeting about Jon Stewart's Jewish Heritage to later calling the same man a 'pussy.' This man sends a clear message about race and general civility as well to be honest. It's probably true in most cases, but again considering culture the recent election has given more legitimacy to, I do think it is completely within the right of the mall to do so, and maybe even a responsibility to push back against that culture of racism that's cropping up. People might be upset that Santa's race has been changed, and by no means do they have to like that, however, I cannot imagine that many if any are thinking about the implications of both the recent election and the black Santa as they protest this. Edited by Tinny, Dec 4 2016, 01:41 AM.
	Above signature created by Graffiti


+ Sandy Shore	Dec 4 2016, 02:23 AM Post #13
Posts: 1,860 Group: Elite Member Member #12,337 Joined: May 18, 2015	Tinny Dec 4 2016, 01:40 AM No but they do see the fallout "Black Lives don't matter" graffitied onto a wall, an uptick in racism and neonazism, Trumps incendiary rhetoric is something many of them likely heard as well, so again a reminder to the kids, and now that I think about it probably some of the adults as well might be helpful (though who knows if it'll have any effect on an adult considering any of the racist crap going around). And no, we're talking about someone who thinks Judge Gonzalo Curiel cannot adequately rule in a lawsuit against Trump University because he is apparently Mexican (He was born in Chicago) and thus has a bias while thinking the same towards potentially muslim people. And regardless if he wants to specify the Mexicans are "fine" as he puts it his rhetoric, they have sent that overall message of intolerance, this is not something invisible that was made up out of the blue to help "Shillary" as it's said, this is the culture Trump creates. From Tweeting about Jon Stewart's Jewish Heritage to later calling the same man a 'pussy.' This man sends a clear message about race and general civility as well to be honest. It's probably true in most cases, but again considering culture the recent election has given more legitimacy to, I do think it is completely within the right of the mall to do so, and maybe even a responsibility to push back against that culture of racism that's cropping up. People might be upset that Santa's race has been changed, and by no means do they have to like that, however, I cannot imagine that many if any are thinking about the implications of both the recent election and the black Santa as they protest this. Rather than the election giving legitimacy to, is it not conceivable that all of it, and Trump himself, is a reaction against these exact sort of things? It seems almost certain, in-fact. White Americans being constantly shamed and accused of racism; being told that their opinions don't matter because they have this intangible privilege that isn't their fault; being told that their concerns don't matter because they're just disgusting bigots. It seems perfectly natural that they're going to push back, and Trump appears to them as the answer. Unfortunately. To some people, Black Lives Matter themselves are a thug group, using certain events as an excuse for violence and murder, or to disrupt the lives of and punish others for what they're convinced is injustice. Neo-nazism and acts racism might be on the rise as a reaction to what they perceive as continued injustices. However, I don't believe for a moment America as a whole is becoming more racist. If certain white people are getting fed up with all this "political correctness", shall we call it, then instead of a black Santa being a push back of that, is it not going to be taken as further insult to, and thus incite more anger in, those kinds of people that are themselves fed up with this kind of thing? I don't think changing beloved icons and characters to suit a political agenda of any background is or would have been appropriate prior to the rise of Trump, and I get why you're saying it sends a good message at this point in time, but I think it remains unhelpful—in that it's not an answer to any thing you might hope it is—and still insulting. Quote: And no, we're talking about someone who thinks Judge Gonzalo Curiel cannot adequately rule in a lawsuit against Trump University because he is apparently Mexican (He was born in Chicago) and thus has a bias while thinking the same towards potentially muslim people. Be fair; I think that's taking it out of context. If you publicly spoke up against Canadians coming in to America illegally because they happened have a habit of doing so, wouldn't you worry if a the person judging you was Canadian? Not because Canadians are dishonest or mean, but because they might hold some bias against you due to your views. I know I absolutely would be concerned that they feel that way, and Trump is just stupid enough to say what he's thinking about someone that's not quite white enough for people to not see a racial element in it, in public.



* Yu Narukami	Dec 4 2016, 02:33 AM Post #14
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	Is it really changing Santa Claus to suit a political agenda though? Using that argument, any kind of announced event where a traditionally white character is played by a black person is 'suiting an agenda'. What agenda, exactly? And regarding the Judge, nobody should be concerned in cases like that. If it was feared that there was any chance that Curiel would let his potential bias impact his judgement, do you really think he'd be able to reside over the case?



*Copy_Ninja*	Dec 4 2016, 02:46 AM Post #15
*Novacane for the pain* Posts: 8,033 Group: Guardian Member #6,499 Joined: July 18, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None Favourite Anime Naruto, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, Hunter x Hunter (2011) What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Monster, One Piece, Naruto, Fullmetal Alchemist, Hunter X Hunter, Death Note, SnK	Quote: If certain white people are getting fed up with all this "political correctness", shall we call it, then instead of a black Santa being a push back of that, is it not going to be taken as further insult to, and thus incite more anger in, those kinds of people that are themselves fed up with this kind of thing? I don't think changing beloved icons and characters to suit a political agenda of any background is or would have been appropriate prior to the rise of Trump, and I get why you're saying it sends a good message at this point in time, but I think it remains unhelpful—in that it's not an answer to any thing you might hope it is—and still insulting. I get what you're saying and I've seen a fair number of people saying the same thing since the election. But I don't agree. If anything, I think the election shows how much work there still is to be done on this kind of thing. Yes, people should be more considerate in who they're calling racist and what for because it starts to take power out of the word but it's still important to promote inclusivity. I think children from minority groups don't see enough of people of their ethnicity included in things like Christmas. All the iconography surrounding it is white, including Santa, the elves, all religious depictions of Jesus etc. I think it's nice for some of these kids to see a person of such importance to them that also looks like them. Besides, it's not like you'd have to go far to find a white Santa anyway.
	We'll never be those kids again


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